Damian speaks with Los Angeles Times immigration policy reporter Hamed Aleaziz about covering immigration stories during the Trump administration and how he built a career in journalism after graduating into the 2008 financial crisis.
About Our Guest:
Hamed Aleaziz is a staff writer at the Los Angeles Times covering immigration policy. Previously he was at BuzzFeed News, where he wrote about immigration and broke news on Trump and Biden policies and the effects of those policies on families and communities. Before that, he covered immigration, race, and civil rights at the San Francisco Chronicle, was a criminal justice reporter at the Daily Journal, and did a fellowship at Mother Jones magazine. A Livingston Award finalist in 2021, Aleaziz graduated from the University of Oregon with a degree in journalism.
Find Hamed Aleaziz Online:
Los Angeles Times Author Page
BuzzFeed News Author Page
MuckRack Author Page
Mother Jones Author Page
Twitter
LinkedIn
Listen to Hamed's lecture
Listen to the bonus lecture Q&A podcast episode with Hamed
Watch our video Q&A with Hamed
Show Notes
0:03: Show and guest introduction
1:34: Hamed's first exposure to the power of journalism
4:03: How Hamed got into immigration reporting and what he enjoys about it
7:37: Building rapport and trust with sources
9:37: Fact-checking
12:32: Tools Hamed uses on the job to build trust
13:48: Advice for student journalists looking to break into the industry
15:18: How Hamed carved out his own reporting roles
16:47: Maintaining work-life balance as a journalist
18:56: Hamed's study-abroad experience in Amman, Jordan
22:35: Advice for UofO students
24:16: Graduating into the Great Recession and finding a job
26:36: Hamed's impressions of campus
27:48: Show wrap-up
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This podcast was transcribed automatically. The accuracy of this transcript may vary.
Damian Radcliffe 00:03
Hello and welcome to the Demystifying Media Podcast. I'm Damian Ratcliffe, the Carolyn S Chambers professor of journalism at the University of Oregon, and today we're going to be talking with a special guest, Hamad Aleaziz and SOJC alumni now based at the Los Angeles Times, where he covers immigration. Hamed has joined us on campus throughout the week as a journalist in residence, meeting with students, faculty, and student groups to talk about his work and career path. Aleaziz came to the Times from Buzzfeed News, where he also covered immigration and consistently broke news on Trump and Biden policies, revealed several internal reports detailing conditions within the Department of Homeland Security, and documented how ICE deported a group of children to Guatemala after a federal court judge said it couldn't. Before that he covered race, civil rights, and immigration at the San Francisco Chronicle, was a criminal justice reporter at The Daily Journal, and did a year long fellowship at Mother Jones. After graduating from the SOJC in the University of Oregon with a degree in journalism in 2009, he spent 18 months as a research assistant for Reza Aslan, the well known Iranian American scholar. He was Livingston Award finalist in 2021, which honors outstanding reporting of journalists under the age of 35. In 2020, he was awarded the Media Leadership Award, given to individuals whose efforts in the media most accurately depict immigration and immigrants, as [unintelligible] by the AILA, the American Immigration Lawyers Association. He lives in California with his wife and two young sons, and is a passionate San Francisco 49-ers and Giants fan. Hamed, thank you so much for joining us.
Hamed Aleaziz 01:33
Thank you for having me.
Damian Radcliffe 01:34
So I wanted to start right at the beginning, really, and your sort of journalistic journey. Many people get into journalism through a variety of different routes. But I think you have a very particular kind of moment and experience in your life and your family's life that really helped you understand the power of journalism and reporting. And you were just eight years old when this happened to you. Can you tell us a little about that?
Hamed Aleaziz 01:57
Yeah, my father had immigrated here from Iran to study at Oregon State University. And by the late 1990s, the US government had ordered him to leave the country because his visa had expired. The issue with that was that my older brother was severely disabled, and had to be in a specialized care home with around the clock 24/7 care. He was there from a young age as a young boy. So this deportation, this removal, would have led to [the separation of] my family, my parents and me and my younger brother, who were both born in the United States, but would have went with my parents back to Iran, while my older brother would have remained in the United States. This separation was grounds for a story by a reporter for The Oregonian who wrote a compelling feature about my family situation. And because of that story, my family received an outcry of support from advocates and all kinds of community leaders, as well as politicians. After some time, my family was able to get an attorney and win their case in immigration court, and now they're US citizens. So I saw firsthand the power of journalism, the potential impact of journalism. And, you know, the one thing I always say is that the reporter Katie Muldoon, her name was well known in my home, you know, that was a name that was revered in my home. So I knew that the impact a single journalist can have on a single family or community, the power, the power of journalism, yeah.
Damian Radcliffe 04:03
Presumably, it took a little while for you to be able to kind of process and comprehend that power. But did that also influence your desire to tell particular types of stories as as a journalist or did that happen kind of more by by circumstance? I know for example, you cover immigration now, but it wasn't until sort of 2015, 2016 that that really emerged as the beat that you wanted to specialize in and were able to so.
Hamed Aleaziz 04:31
Yeah, when it comes to the type of reporting I wanted to do, I think when I first started out, I just wanted to get in the newspaper, getting a publication cover, whatever was big at the time, be a part of the conversation really, you know. I think that was one of the things that I was so yearning for, was, you know, reading really interesting stories from incredible places or events and feeling like how amazing it would be to be able to be one of these reporters. That seemed like a dream. So it wasn't until former President Trump was, you know, gaining steam in the GOP nomination process that I ultimately started to do some immigration stories for the San Francisco Chronicle. And I just naturally kind of gravitated toward it because there were so many elements to this beat. Government accountability stories, feature stories about human beings, the ability to translate really complicated policies that impact a lot of people through the lens of families and people that are compelling, you know, the neighbors of readers. So [it] just had all these elements that seemed really interesting to me.
Damian Radcliffe 05:48
And within that kind of broad spectrum of different types of stories that you might work on, do you have particular ones that you most enjoy doing? Or is it actually the diversity of everything from breaking news to feature writing to more investigative pieces? Is that part of the appeal to you?
Hamed Aleaziz 06:04
Yeah, I enjoy that diversity of experience. I love the ability to jump on something that's happening, that's breaking and then being forced to write a story on deadline and to, you know, get the voices that you need, the data that you need, the experts that you need to talk to, uncovering, you know, a nugget of information that really cuts through the news cycle. Those challenges of daily reporting and deadline writing is really fun to me. At the same time, I love being able to get to know a subject or an individual and really unwrap a compelling narrative and be forced to, you know, spend time writing a feature that reads well, that flows well, that draws in readers. That's, that's another type of challenge. A completely different type of challenge. And at the same time, accountability reporting I think is just kind of one of the main tenants of this industry, is to keep the powerful accountable. And to do that type of reporting and to, you know, that just pushes you in a different direction to all kinds of different types of skills while at the same time maintaining, you know, the writing abilities. But it's just, it's more about the reporting, it's more about being able to to figure out, you know, where to go to uncover details of the public, you know, was unaware of.
Damian Radcliffe 07:37
And I want to come back to accountability in a moment. But I also want I want to [unintelligible] about trust first. Because I think one of the things is really interesting about the beat that you're covering is that, first of all you're working with many sources, both in terms of officials, but also people and communities that are going through particular cases, or feeling the repercussions of different policies. Neither of those are obvious constituents who would necessarily want to talk to a journalist. So how do you engender trust in those different sources?
Hamed Aleaziz08:07
Yeah, I think transparency with anybody that you're talking to, you know, your purpose of why you're speaking with them, I think, oftentimes, you know, when it comes to people who are in vulnerable situations, especially, you know, immigrants who are potentially undocumented, there's a real fear about talking to the media and what that will lead to. So that transparency discussing, you know, why you're doing what you're doing, you know, what you're going to be doing exactly with the conversation, the purpose of the story, being as transparent as possible, but the entire process as well. You know, when the story could potentially come out, walking through any fears they have around a story coming out--all these things make the person you're interviewing and talking to trust you more. Because so often I've come across people who haven't had that experience with the media. They don't know what's gonna happen when they talk to you. They're scared of the way they're going to be discussed, the way they're going to be framed, you know, the potential threat to themselves or their family from talking to you. So, you know, that's one element and then also just, you know, making sure they know that you're gonna fact check everything that, you know, there's no surprises and that you won't get a single fact wrong.
Damian Radcliffe 09:37
Can you say a little bit more about that fact checking process and how you navigate that both as an individual but presumably there are also other people that are involved in that mix. So when you're dealing with, say, some of your government cases, presumably there are lawyers that you might have to bring in as part of some of those conversations and of course, support from editors as well.
Hamed Aleaziz 09:55
Yeah, I think it's a different process for different stories. But so often you're bringing in yourself, you know, other editors to really go through the story line by line to fact check every single fact, everything that could be open for questioning, you know. Going through the documents that you already have, reading them, you know, countless times, not just once, you know. So often what I do is, you know, [is] I get something like a document, and I just write a story based off of what I think was the story. I think that's the best way to do my work, is to see something and write what I feel is the news from it. And then I return and I read that document over and over and over. And I go through my story as well. And if there's any additional context I add to my story, I will fact check every single fact. Ages, you know, spellings of names, you know, dates, everything, making sure you have that real diligence with every piece, and being willing to, you know, listen to questions and challenges from other editors on certain facts that sometimes aren't, you know, quite as cut and dry.
Damian Radcliffe 11:15
And you started at Mother Jones as a fact checker, so presumably this was sort of hardwired into your DNA at that point, but a lot of those jobs, of course, have disappeared. And then the speed of our new cycle may also be one of the reasons why perhaps fact checking is not always as robust as as it should be. Is that a fair observation of the state of the industry?
Hamed Aleaziz 11:37
Certainly. I think it's changed a lot. And I, you know, I have an [unintelligible] experience [of] the golden days as they describe it of the industry back in the day, you know, decades ago, where the resources were unlimited. I think it's now more incumbent on the reporters doing the work, and the editors involved to make sure that everything is accurate. But I think there's no reason why, you know, any reporter can't do that work on their own. It's just a matter of setting aside the appropriate time, aetting aside, you know, really being focused on it, you know, just being honestly a little anxious about the facts. I think, also just having the seriousness about the work, and how important it is not to get a single fact, wrong, is essential.
Damian Radcliffe 12:32
Yeah. And presumably, that approach is also part of the trust building you've talked about in terms of the relationships with with sources. And you talked a little bit this week about some of the tools you use. So like Signal, for example, as a way for people to be able to contact you anonymously. And then also a very memorable quote from a class that you spoke at, when you talked about being subpoenaed by ICE, and saying, I would literally go to jail for my sources.
Hamed Aleaziz 13:01
Yeah, I think having that, you know, the trust of your sources is ultimately the only way I can do my work, you know. Regardless of whether or not this person is within the government, or, you know, a business, and them risking you know, their future by by talking to me, or if it's a immigrant, or family-- whoever it is--you know, maintaining that trust, you know, having that transparency, you know, talking through, you know, what people are scared about, and being willing to be empathetic and human being goes a long way.
Damian Radcliffe 13:48
And so, for people who want to get into this field, and particularly might be interested in this beat, what further advice do you have for them?
Hamed Aleaziz13:56
I would say, you know, especially for college students and others, you know, reading reporters, work, reading, you know, writers that you're finding, you know, writers that you really admire, and consuming as much journalism as possible. Because through that reading, you understand how stories are written, the tricks that reporters employ to compel you to continue reading, and sometimes you can pick up on ways they do the reporting itself. That's incredibly important. I'd also say that just try to get as much experience as possible. Try to do the job. You know, join student media, try to find internships, because the more you do journalism, the more you, you know, learn the skills necessary for this work. And you also learn, you know, what aspect of this industry that you like to do, whether it's multimedia, video, podcasting, or print media. So I would definitely encourage all students, especially at the U of O to, to apply for LA Times fellowships and internships and, you know, other publications as well. But it's incredibly important.
Damian Radcliffe 15:18
It sounds like you also need to have your finger on the pulse and to some extent, kind of drive your own career. As if I kind of read the tea leaves correctly from when you were talking earlier on in the week, you started covering immigration at the San Francisco Chronicle, and then kind of recognized that this was a growing area, and that BuzzFeed hired you in part because you kind of proposed that this was something that they should be covering, and that you could do. Is that, yeah, a correct interpretation?
Hamed Aleaziz 15:49
Yeah, I mean, I kind of badgered Ben Smith about it--they're the former editor in chief--and really put myself out there. And that's another part of this as well, as to with, you know, trying to gain a foothold in this industry is to not be shy, you know. Try to reach out to as many people as possible. Put, you know, your name your clips in front of the editors and the publications that you want to work for that, you know, and get those clips. And that's why the experience matters, is because once you get that you have something to show people, you know, that you can do this job. So that was that was certainly something that I was doing and thinking about and seeing, you know, sometimes a gap in coverage on immigration nationally that, you know, I really wanted to jump at the chance of covering it and to, you know, explore this beat across this country.
Damian Radcliffe 16:47
And we know the issues around mental health and kind of work-life balance are increasingly important. And we're having much more kind of conversations around that in newsrooms, but also our students are also very kind of cognizant of this. And so I'm curious about how, I mean, you're a journalist of color, you're writing about people of color, and you're writing about an intensely political topic. There are multiple facets there that put you in the firing line. How do you kind of navigate that, particularly in terms of kind of online attention that you might get, some of which would be unwarranted?
Hamed Aleaziz17:24
Yeah, I've certainly been the target of attacks. And I think, initially it's hard not to feel kind of bad about it. But I take it as fuel to the fire. I kind of have taken this approach where I take that those attacks, especially from people who are not coming from a good place, to continue to push me to do, you know, the reporting and the stories that I want to do and to just keep my head down and continue reporting. And that's the only thing that matters. That's the only thing that really will determine my future and my ability to do the work that I want to do, is for me to continue to focus on trying to get better at reporting, better at writing, and to maintain the level that I'm at. And as far as trying to maintain my mental health, that can be difficult, especially with the attacks, but just, you know, the challenges of the job and the time and the experiences, the things that you see. So it's really important for me to process this with my family and my friends, to be present with my children when I'm with them, to have some time away from my phone, my screens, and to also just be able to listen to music and to go on runs and play basketball. These things are really important for me to maintain my sanity.
Damian Radcliffe 18:56
And then if we go back to your time at the the SOJC, one of the most memorable experiences that you've talked a little bit about with me previously was studying abroad. I wondered if you could just say a little bit about that, how that kind of shaped you both as a journalist and by the sounds of it as as a person, too.
Hamed Aleaziz 19:16
Yeah, I went to Amman, Jordan in 2007, the summer of 2007. I was there for a year. And I'd always been really interested in the region, you know, because of my own family's, you know, background, but also there was a lot happening at the time. Obviously, the Iraq War, increasing sectarian violence, you know, these authoritarian regimes across the region and instability. So I saw an opportunity to go abroad and spend some time getting to know it on the ground. It seemed really exciting to me, you know, not to read stories from there, but to actually be there to walk on that part of the world. But the reality of that is, you know, you show up at age--I was 19 or 20--and you know, it's a lot different than Oregon. It's a lot different than Portland. And I was initially very kind of not scared, but wanting to come back. You know, uncomfortable. I just was like, I need to figure out a way to shorten my trip. I'm just gonna do one term here. Or I'm just gonna, I'm gonna go somewhere else. And it was through talking to some older students who had done the same program that really made me feel like, okay, just take a breath, continue with this experience, find, you know, your people here, find an experience here that will make you grow. And I learned from that just how to push through being uncomfortable in an uncomfortable situation by myself. And then how to how to make any situation work regardless of the challenges and being able to find an internship there at an English language magazine. I was actually rejected from it my first term. And my second term I went back, and I had a different idea for the interview, different story pitches, and I got the internship and I was able to work there. And it was an amazing experience. You know, it allowed me to publish some clips. So it just taught me that I could, you know, go through anything and survive it.
Damian Radcliffe 21:30
Yeah, it sounds like that resilience was was incredibly important. I mean, you're a long way from home, you have to find a way to navigate it. But also recognizing that just because something makes us feel uncomfortable, doesn't mean it's not necessarily a bad thing, that actually we can use that to develop as people and as journalists.
Hamed Aleaziz 21:47
Yeah, definitely. It's almost like a, you know, fight or flight. You know, you have that feeling that you have, where you just want to, like, escape this moment. You feel very uncomfortable. And I think that sometimes you feel that throughout your career, when you're given, you know, challenging assignments or, you know, especially as a young reporter, set somewhere where you are nervous. The stakes of what you're reporting on, you know, the fact that it's going to be on the front page of the newspaper, you don't want to mess that up. You don't want to get anything wrong. Yyou want to make sure you're doing work that is at the level of more experienced reporters. All these things in your head as you're going to the scene can be overwhelming. But I think that's the only way you can grow, is to be in those uncomfortable situations.
Damian Radcliffe 22:35
And then this is your first time back on campus since you graduated back in 2009. We're having this conversation in late October 2022. What advice would you have for students who are kind of where you were 15 years or so ago?
Hamed Aleaziz22:53
Yeah, I mean, like I said, I think the experiences are really important to try to find any experience, to go wherever that experience is, like, whatever that job is, to get that firsthand,opportunity will will do wonders for you. Regardless of where it is, that's really important. I also would say, you know, having faith that if you work hard, if you're determined and persistent, that things will work out. I mean, I think I was just so stressed out my senior year of college about, you know, my future, and where would lead to. It didn't seem like there was a defined path for me. And I think, you know, I wish I could go back and tell myself, you know, like, not to be stressed out quite as much and to maybe enjoy my last year here on campus, because it is ultimately a really special place with really great people. And it's so beautiful. And, you know, I really miss that time. So yeah, just I think, living in the moment, being present at the same time. You know, just working hard and not letting anybody push you away from your path. You'll be just fine.
Damian Radcliffe 24:16
And I think there's a lot of parallels from you graduating in '09 during the Great Recession, that kind of huge economic uncertainty that students are facing now. I think there are parallels definitely for students that you've met over the last week. And I was very struck by the fact you you haven't sugar coated the conversation with them. Like you were very clear, for example, when you did your public lecture on Tuesday of saying you weren't sure if this was the right thing for you, and it took you a while to find your place within this industry. There were several points at which you thought you might leave it. I think it's really important for students to hear that reality and that it's not necessarily going to be a smooth transition to where you want to be.
Hamed Aleaziz24:57
Yeah, I mean, I don't really have many connections in this industry. I didn't have a sense of, you know how to make a career in journalism. And there was no real defined path. And especially during a time with the Great Recession, where it felt, like, you know, newspapers and newsrooms were laying off so many people and closing and it seems so daunting. And even a few years into my career, you know, it wasn't really happening. There was no job that I felt, like, was stable and permanent and made me happy and like, I felt like, you know, there was a future in it. But I think that's okay. You know, there's so many people I know, especially who graduate during uncertain times, where the first few things they do in their career, you know, don't define what they do later on. It's just a matter of trying to, you know, survive, to gain the skills you need in the future, and then look for other opportunities, to constantly be searching for opportunities to get you to where you want to go. That resiliency is incredibly important. Because there were multiple times when I had people tell me, you know, this industry wasn't for me for a variety of reasons. But I just kept on going. You know, I had friends who pushed me to keep going, I had family who told me to keep going. And as I did, I slowly, you know, found my way.
Damian Radcliffe 26:36
Well, we really appreciate all of the time and insights that you've given us during the course of the last week. And I'm curious, just to kind of wrap up you know, we've downloaded an awful lot from you. What have you taken away from from us and your experience back on campus?
Hamed Aleaziz26:52
Yeah, it's inspiring to talk to students and to hear their interests and to hear them, you know. Especially I remember your class, the story pitches that your students were providing, it was really cool to hear their, you know, excitement, their stories, you know, and their kind of openness to go out and to report these stories. And then in Eugene, it, you know, reminded you of the beauty of, the power of this industry. And, you know, I was really also struck by just the incisive questions that the student body had, really forced me to think and I picked up on . . . . I don't know, it kind of inspired me even more that, you know, like I said that the greatness of journalism. It was amazing.
Damian Radcliffe 27:48
Well, the greatness of journalism is always a good endpoint for a conversation. Hamed, thank you so much for joining us today and for all of the time you've spent with us during the course of the past week. Do keep an eye out on our website for materials from Hamed's visit, including his guest lecture. You can find that on our website, which is demystifying.uoregon.edu. In the meantime, it just remains for me to thank once more, our guest today, Hamed Aleaziz. Until next time, thank you for listening.
Damian Radcliffe 28:17
If you've enjoyed this podcast, why notcheck out another from the University of Oregon School of Journalism and Communication. The Listeners podcast is a show about the craft and power of listening. We talk with media and communication experts, thought leaders, doers, and innovators whose ideas can amplify the quality of our dialogue and interactions. Subscribe to the show anywhere where you find your other favorite podcasts and visit listenerspodcast.com to go deeper with each of our episodes show notes. Thanks for listening.